Katerina: Hi Sabrina. 

Sabrina: Hello, how are you?

Katerina: Hello, I’m good, thank you so much for coming to this podcast.

Sabrina: Thank you for having me.

Katerina: No. Great. Yeah just to get into, you know, to get into the core of this discussion which is, your entrepreneurial journey. Could you just tell us a little bit about yourself, your background.

Sabrina: Of course, I actually graduated from Drexel University which is in Philadelphia, and I graduated with a hospitality major, so after that for about 15-20 years, I have been doing event planning. So, from all ends of the spectrum, I started in restaurants and hotels and then moved my way through event companies doing really high-end event companies and then started people’s catering for them depending on where I was living at the time. 

I lived in Baltimore originally grew up there in Baltimore, Maryland, and then I moved to Atlanta where I spent about 11 years there really growing my career in hospitality and event planning and business and then I had kids. So I have two young small kids. I’ve got a three-year-old, and an eight-year-old, and they keep me incredibly busy, and when my daughter was five. I got pregnant with my son and we were still living in Atlanta at the time and at that time I worked for a very high-end event company doing celebrity events, designing events, all kinds of fun amazing things and I realised very quickly that the lifestyle that I was living was not conducive for kids. So my parents actually live in Florida, South Florida.

So my husband and I actually decided to move to South Florida and be closer to family actually just to have a little help more than anything else. So, when I moved to Florida I actually continued doing my event planning, worked for a couple of different companies down here. Ended up realising that that was not what I wanted to do anymore and I loved what I did and at the same time I was miserable I worked, seven days a week, sometimes 16-18 hours a day it was, it was a life, and it’s a life you either choose to love and go with it and people say you’re crazy to be in the hospitality industry but I  realised that yes I’m crazy but I also realised that I wanted to spend more time with my family.

Katerina: So given COVID it was the right choice…

Sabrina: I didn’t realise it at the time it was very petrifying but I decided to leave all of that. Right before COVID hit, and I was going to figure out what I was going to do with the rest of my life that I could still be a mom, and still be around for my family and see my husband more and have fun with my kids and have weekends that I could spend and that wasn’t something I had previously had prior to that. So I left and as soon as I did my sister who owned a company called A Childhood Store she had actually started it in 2012. She was needing assistance.

She had actually been approached by Whole Foods about selling some of our plants there. And she had asked if I wanted to join her with the company and it was a perfect opportunity for me to try something completely different, completely out of my realm something I had never done before, but it was exciting so I jumped on board and we started going with it from there.

Katerina: Yeah, I saw the video on your website. Was it you making crayons? Okay, so from hospitality to making crayons, it’s very creative, right. So are you a creative person?

Sabrina: Very much so. So in a lot of what I did in event planning was event design so I actually took a large scale of designing people’s parties, their sets, depending on if I was working with a movie or working with, you know, a wedding or Bar Mitzvah or whatever it may be, I took all of that and took their vision and actually got to design it and then came to fruition at the end of it so they got to see it in life.

So in some ways, what I did was very creative, in terms of designing that and so it kind of took over the creative and I love anything creative it actually is my passion. At food is my love and my passion so kind of creating food and design out of that and that’s something I do just kind of as a side thing more than anything else

Katerina: Because of these crayons, they also did like hundreds of natural, right? You use them.

Sabrina: Correct. They are just, they are three ingredients so it’s actually soy sauce, so I wax beeswax and a non-toxic tempera powdered pigment. So that’s what brings the colour into it and that is all that I have in the crayons so they’re very much a little bit more of a pastel blend type crayon they’re a little bit softer than what you think of as a traditional crayon. But because of that when you mix the colours it actually blends the colours almost sort of like paint.

When it does it so it actually comes out very vibrant and beautiful in terms of that it’s very different but it’s also for being a mom and with kids, it’s my son who loves to put things in his mouth or things places they shouldn’t be and so it’s less of a fear of knowing that if they put it in their mouth it’s not toxic it’s not going to hurt them obviously you don’t want to eat wax but it’s not going to hurt them under any circumstances.

Katerina: No, I think it’s a great idea, especially today. We have an increasing awareness of all these chemicals and the impact of chemicals on health and I guess a lot of moms, they want something natural for their kids to play with and they want, especially crayons like you said you know I’ve got a four and a half-year-old, he’s well yes he puts everything in his mouth. Yes, but you took over the ownership of the business. When did you join? Did you join in February,  this business? 

Sabrina: I joined at the end of February. I started doing that with my sister when I left my corporate job. It was the beginning of February. I took a couple of weeks off. I had been working like a crazy person for years and years and it was just nice to take a couple of weeks to myself. But then I joined my sister at the end of February and then COVID hit. March 15, I think, is when everything started to shut down here.

So, on March 15, I had actually planned to go visit my sister. A week after COVID hit, obviously that never happened because we cancelled flights. My sister has kids. I have kids and we were trying to be as cautious as possible. So COVID took a turn for all of us, it was not I mean it’s been, I think it’s been hard for lack of a better word to say that so we. After much discussion with my sister, she ended up deciding after doing crayons for almost eight years that she was burnt out on it and didn’t want to do it anymore.

And so I, needing, wanting a career path and I’m very much a workaholic in some aspect of probably why I did what I did before. I really wanted to take this full force and see how I could take it and what I could do with it. So I ended up, I think officially taking it over from her in June, end of June sometime and then it took a little bit of transition for her to send everything because she had been doing all the production at her house and I had been at when I took over in March, take you over the sales, doing all the business components of it.

But then I had to quickly teach myself how to do production and how to make crayons and how to just go with it and I did. I started it and ran with it and I will say the last three months have been incredibly challenging, but I am growing the business, leaps and bounds and it is satisfying. And I want to cry every day.

Katerina: Why? Because of how it is? Because you think oh my god what have I done?

Sabrina: Honestly, it’s a crazy life right now obviously when you start a new business, it’s not all as I joke but sunshine and rainbows so it’s my husband all the time. It’s not all sunshine and rainbows. It is a crazy amount of hours that you work, but I get to be home with my kids. Unfortunately, right now with COVID, my daughter is homeschooled via remote school with the system and my son being three, obviously, we didn’t send him back to daycare. So, in addition to running a business and starting a new business, I am a mom teacher and I am a daycare to my son and we just make it work.

Katerina: Because that isn’t… you kind of decided to take the ownership of this business that you wanted, you used to work longer hours right and you smoked it almost. You, are you doing more now or are you doing less than you used to do?

Sabrina: I’m probably doing more, that is for sure, but I know, when you start a business, it’s not so… I know that you’re gonna put in long long hours to get it up and get it running to the efficient manner that you needed to be. And then, you know, eventually knowing that after a year or so, I won’t be working these hours but I have to put in the effort now to make sure that I’m doing it correctly, starting it correctly.

Katerina: Yeah. So how do you, how do you avoid burnout as a mom of two little kids and, and also an owner of the business, how do you manage not to have a burnout?

Sabrina: We are still trying to figure that out.

Katerina: Okay.

Sabrina: It’s, you know, I try and make sure that if I have leeway time, I take my kids swimming in the afternoons, I mean I get to go for a bike ride around the neighbourhood. I try and do things so that I am not just completely focused on business. I also want to focus on my family too so I try and make activities that we can do in my off time and then I end up working a lot at night after my kids go to bed. Trying to get back on the computer answering emails, producing crayons.

I have a tremendous support system. My family is amazing. And my mom and dad helped me a lot. So my mom actually helps me with the production part of the crayons and she’s here every day. I have a lovely gentleman that actually in my corporate world with COVID, he ended up losing his position in the events industry as well which the events industry is a hard industry to be in right now because almost everybody I know is out of a job.

And so he’s been helping me on website development and marketing a little bit and just kind of helping me on the side is he’s kind of started his own business as well and I think that what I’ve been finding is most of the people who were in the hospitality are trying to branch out into other things just to make a source of income, at the time, so he’s helping me and then my, my parents also help with the kids and we’ll take them so that I can get some stuff done. And then my husband still works full time so he’s, he never, COVID did not affect his position.

Katerina: Yeah, I mean, it’s good that you’ve got at least a couple of people helping you out. Because. You know when you start up a business it’s important to have some kind of a network of friends, or maybe mentors to help you, you know, with that with advice and so on but do you have anyone in the family who is an entrepreneur? Because entrepreneurship can be quite lonely, do you have someone to talk to? You know, about your difficulties, you know, about business and stuff like that?

Sabrina: My mom is actually my lean on for most things. She was very successful in her career, she’s now retired, but she was an amazing business woman and she accomplished so much throughout her life in her career. She is definitely somebody that I look up to and want to be like, in terms of my career as well so I bounce ideas off her all the time I talk about what I, you know, she’s the person I cry to she’s the person I laugh with she’s kind of right now my everything, in terms of that and then my husband.

I have a lot of my family, actually owns their own businesses, my sister’s husband who I started the crayons with who she started the crayons with, he is a very successful, owns a marketing firm. And most of my family kind of does their own business sort of thing. So, it’s something that I see everybody do all the time and it’s I had always worked for somebody else and now I get to do it for myself, which I love. Honestly, it’s very. I’m very passionate and excited about it and I’m exhausted.

Katerina: It’s good you have a sense of humour about this because. 

Sabrina: If you don’t laugh, I mean you have to laugh.

Katerina: But what is the greatest sort of challenge of transitioning from the corporate career into running your own business, what is the greatest challenge? 

Sabrina: There’s so much that goes into the background of running your own business that when you’re in a corporate career you have bosses, you have other people to lean on, you have a lot more resources, financially and just in general, that you don’t get when you’re starting your own business and it’s something that you have to, I’ve taught myself a lot. I also learned a lot throughout my career because a lot of what I did prior was helping people develop different programmes, catering aspects to their business so when I transitioned over to doing it for myself, really.

Honestly, it’s almost somewhat of a mind game to me because it’s something that you have to be in the mindset of that you can do it and that you’re going to put the effort into it because if you put somebody else doing it, it wasn’t mine, I could you know, walk away and be okay with that but with mine, you have to put your full force into it and that’s just something that I’ve been, it’s a struggle and you’re just trying to figure out what’s right, what’s wrong because this is a whole nother industry that I’ve never been in, retail is something very different than hospitality in terms of selling and especially with COVID right now. You don’t, there are not many stores obviously so it’s something that you’re doing work virtually online. So, but it’s trying to figure out what works and what doesn’t. And I am literally trying all kinds of things right now online just to see how I’m able to get my name out there more.

Katerina: Yeah. No, I mean it’s so what you’re saying it’s. Yeah, it’s what the time to start up a business, well, start the business. Take ownership of the business. But I guess if even if we are in a second way for God, I don’t know touchwood we will not or we won’t be, but it’s all kind of in the UK at least you know there are some signs that we are potentially going to go into the second wave, but yeah, and then you know you’ll have all these parents with kids at home and I guess the market is there, it just like getting in front of the few people who who are willing to buy the product and to be able to market yourself, but have you heard any side hustles you know some, some sides of the businesses were you were in your planning events planning job?  Or did you, oh this is your absolutely first entrepreneurial sort of experience? 

Sabrina: Myself, yes I mean I always did stuff on the side. That’s something that I kind of tend to do anyway currently as I’m running my own business. I’m also helping another lady with her box and enter HR needs. I do that. In addition to running my own business is just kind of something that I’ve started just doing on the side but it’s for me it’s always been if I was doing something on the side it had to do with the events industry so I was helping with a wedding or planning a wedding on the side or doing whatever it may be, but it wasn’t my own business, it was just something that I was doing. So this is my first real, of owning my own company versus working for somebody else.

Katerina: Are you enjoying yourself?

Sabrina: I actually, yes, very much so. I don’t want to go back to the world that I used to be in. I wouldn’t as much as it’s crazy and as much as it’s a challenge. I like the challenge and I wouldn’t trade it for the world so I’m very much hoping that I can continue the upswing that I am doing, and grow this into a business that I don’t have to go back to the old life.

Katerina: Yeah, yeah. Have you known since the beginning of this, you know of running the business. Have you made any mistakes? How did you go about, how did you overcome challenges? Did you have any difficulties when you felt you know, that, perhaps you were stuck and you didn’t know the answer, or did you have anything?

Sabrina: A lot of it has to do with signing up for different channel outlets and basically where I’m selling my items so I recently got onto Amazon. So I actually have been officially selling on Amazon. It’s been that has been a challenge in itself it’s it’s learning how each company does it and doing onboarding with them and try to figure out their processes and systems is a challenge in itself, especially when it’s not something you’ve ever done before and something like Amazon is a huge conglomerate that they have specific ways you have to do it so I have right now a challenge with them I posted a bunch of my stuff online but they are able to change the name according to the algorithms to make sure that gets the most that you see. And unfortunately, they changed the name to a spelling that was incorrect and I’ve been trying to change it and I don’t know how to and it’s just, it’s a challenge of selling

Katerina: I was selling actually in the US on Amazon for three years. I’ve had the benefit supplement brand on Amazon anyway so yes I know the challenges. It’s just figuring out and yeah I’m in just once they created a second like inventory listing for me, and there was no inventory attached to that listing and all the sales were kind of coming through. Anyway, it’s a challenge.

But yeah, I guess. Another question I want to ask is, you know, how do you… how do you stay on top of things, because obviously you have to learn so much and there is so much probably you still don’t know about running the business. How do you stay on top of things? How,…what’s your strategy? 

Sabrina: I try, it’s kind of a daily for me as I get up on the wall, I get my kids started, I do school and breakfast and everything along those lines first but then I jump on the computer first normally at night the night before I actually organise myself in terms of what I need to make production-wise, so I have a whiteboard in my office that’s kind of my “okay this is what I look at and know what I need to make for the following day”, and then I have a list that I prepare for my mother.

So usually I do all of my preparation for the next day the night before getting everything organised and then in the morning I get up and I get everybody else started and then I get on the computer answering emails, go with emails and make sure I try and get back to those people that needed orders or whatever I may be doing in terms of answering questions, signing up for a lot of fairs craft fairs virtual fairs that sort of stuff just trying to get more business and gain more attraction and then. Then I go to production, production really takes up a huge portion of my day I usually make somewhere probably at this point between 600 and 1000 crayons a day.

Katerina: 600? Oh my goodness.

Sabrina: Yes. It’s, I produce a lot when I’m super proud of myself but I am just stepping at a time.

Katerina: How old is your daughter? Can you teach her?

Sabrina: She actually helps tremendously. She loves to help, she likes to help package, she has become my model. I actually just launched a new kids artists aprons, so they colour their own much like my tote collection. My sister designed the totes and it was an amazing thing so I kind of took that idea and played off of it and somebody had asked me for an artist apron for kids they wanted, you know because most kids go to school they need to have an apron. If they’re doing you know just any kind of cooking or whatever kids like that sort of stuff so then puts an activity to it so they send it with crayons and they get to colour on it, it sets and then they can use it and keep it forever and so she is my model, she’s my test maker, she really helps me with all of that and she’s so excited about it.

And then they helped me, my son who is three is an organiser which I thoroughly love he’s sort of OCD like I am when it comes to that and try to make sure things go in its place so he actually loves to help me put things away and clean up at the end of the day and where things go and it’s very cute.
Katerina: So, yeah, no noise great I mean definitely we were talking about how to make kids more entrepreneurial than what is the best way to make them entrepreneurial. Just to let them watch their parents right being involved in entrepreneurial activity and you are a great role, a role model in this respect for your kids and, yes, sometimes they say oh, you know, you can’t be hundred per cent with your kids but then kids are learning from you, right, your work ethics you, you know, 

Sabrina: I have that conversation with my daughter all the time, I tell her you are going to be a strong independent woman and you’re going to be able to do it yourself and I show her how hard mommy works to make sure that we have a life and we can live happily and, you know, and I want her to have that same thing for her and I want her to understand that it’s not easy, you have to work hard for it. But in the end hopefully, it works out. 

Katerina: Yeah, so what can you say about the mindset you know for the opposite you know you haven’t been running the business for four years you just almost like started right this year. But what can you tell about having the right mindset to run a business?

Sabrina: Yeah, credibly important. I mean, honestly, it’s, I, I joke but like it’s super stressful so if you don’t go into it with a positive mindset and you’re going to go into it with a negative mindset it’s never going to work because you’re just going to go in thinking I can’t do this. This is a conversation I have with my kids all the time is “I can, I can, I can, Yes, you can. You just have to find an ultimate way to make it work and figure it out. I mean, you can, we’re smart we’re all smart people we can figure it out, we just have to put our effort into it.

And there isn’t. You have to actually want to do it, versus, you know, not, you know, yes, people are like oh it’s nice I get to work from home I don’t have to go with anybody I don’t have to deal with a boss or work or anything but it doesn’t. You’re, it’s a very different mindset in terms of how you go about it so you just have to make sure that you’re on top of yourself you’re your own boss you’re following your own rules but you have to put in your own checks and balances there’s nobody else that’s checking you. 

Katerina: Yeah. Do you have voices in your head telling…
Sabrina: All the time I talk to myself every…

Katerina: What do you do to get rid of those voices that say, you know, you can’t or, you know,

Sabrina: I, honestly. Thursday’s I cry I think there are days that I have a mental breakdown and I… And then I get up the next day it’s really for me I think it’s more I get up the next day and I, it’s a chant in your head. Okay, today it’s going to be another day. We’re going to start with a clean slate. Let’s start over and we’re going to make, make sure that I’m happy and this really boils down to that I actually love what I’m doing because if I didn’t love what I’m doing that I wouldn’t be in that mindset i don’t think so i think that it does make a difference when you love what you do.

Katerina: Yeah. So when you feel overwhelmed, how do you relax, what do you do to make yourself back into this sort of positive vibe?

Sabrina: I cook. Mm-hmm. I like wine, trying things like going out for a bike ride, going outside for a walk, taking a break, you have to be able to and I had this conversation with my husband this morning. I need to, I am still terrible at it and trying to figure out, taking a break for yourself, you have to also do something for yourself. And if you don’t do that, you’re then just going to end up driving yourself crazy and so right now I’m sort of driving myself crazy but realising at the same time that I need to find a different outlet of being able to just take a break. Take a break from being a mom, take a break from, you know, as they say, there’s a commercial that comes on the TV every once in a while and it’s always the parents saying I’m going to take a sick day, and I always laugh because parents don’t get sick days, that’s not what we do because we do repairs 24 hours a week. But then in some truth, there’s a truth to that sometimes you just need a break. 

Katerina: It’s true, it’s true. Yeah, it’s first it’s well yeah I guess. Women aren’t guilty that you know they look after kids and they sometimes forget about themselves. It’s like I was laughing with my husband. I said look, we decorated the bathroom, we put this really nice bath, and then when we had our son. I can count that probably two-, once I think I used that bath to actually soak up in some salt, I still have the big bag of salt, which aroma salt or something I don’t know, is supposed to be good for you but yeah it’s been nearly five years there’s no time for yourself and it’s important you find that time for yourself.

Sabrina: Very much so, yes.
Katerina: But what does the future.. What is this, you know what is the long term strategy for Childhood Store?

Sabrina: Childhood Store, I’d like to be able to grow the company, to be able to, future obviously right now I’m still currently working out of my house. So in the future, being able to grow enough to get a studio or space that I’m not having wax and colours all over my floors, and everything else, and being able to grow into where I have full-time production people and expanding and so in order to do that, obviously you need to grow your sales. So a lot of what I’m working on is trying to work with bigger stores, trying to get my name into some of the larger companies and getting larger orders. But that also means being able to produce it at the same time so making sure that I have my production in place so what I’m good at and just because of my background in hospitality. We used to do parties for 1000 people at a time.

You had to then make you know three courses of thousand people that ends up being a lot so large scale production was something that I was able to really take from my old career and move it over to here. So, hence me producing 600 to 1000 crayons a day, it’s because I was able to build more moulds and make sure that I was able to reduce going right now I cook somewhere between four and five sometimes six pots of wax at the time.

So that I’m pouring all at once and then it usually takes about 20 to 30 minutes for the wax to set. You pump it out, you clean it up, you make sure that it looks good and then I put it in, give it to my mom who then starts the production portion of it. So it’s really trying to, you know, large scale production, which then transitions over to I can then produce for these large businesses to be able to do that I actually have onboarded with a large business which I’m very excited about just very recently, and hope all that goes in a great position and then hopefully from there I continue to keep doing that.

And in the meantime, selling on Amazon, I sell on Etsy I do my wholesale with fair, actually just jumped on with… which is another wholesale option. And then I am continuously growing. I’m trying to start doing some craft fairs and other places to grow it and then really it is grassroots marketing and sales which is something that I’ve done for years obviously in the sales component of the hospitality industry slightly different but sort of translates to what I do. So I am going to just take my samples and start speaking to people in person because I think that speaking to people in person, sometimes it’s a little bit better than an email.

Katerina: That’s true. But, but, the next question I’m gonna ask you probably may not like. Do you have a plan B, in case this business doesn’t succeed?

Sabrina: Yes and no. It’s one of those I’m giving myself six months to a year. If I can’t succeed to where it needs to be in six months to a year, I’m not going to do it anymore and I’m very adamant about that because I don’t, financially I can’t afford to do this for longer than that without bringing in some sort of income, and but it also is something that if not, I might my goal, obviously was my goal when I left my job in the beginning and that is to find something that I can either work from home and still be around for my children and, you know because I do the books for the lady on the side. Actually, I’m very organised. That’s kind of what I like to do and why I keep myself organised and the million things that I’m doing right now. Maybe I’ll continue to keep doing that or finding some sort of administrative assistant job, something that is going to be fewer hours to be able to be with my kids. Yeah. My kids are only going to be kids for so long. 

Katerina: That’s right, that’s right and why I’m asking you, you probably know the statistics right about the Small Business survival is like, I mean, someday you know it’s 88% of businesses they kind of do they fail in the first year and it’s about what 50% by the year four. So yeah the statistics is not very encouraging, right,  for small business owners.

And I’ve been reading some articles on, I think it was Forbes about Elon Musk and, and there was like a little cartoon explaining entrepreneurship in a nutshell. And there was literally, you know, a little sort of, you know, the person throwing parts of the plane down the hill and then jumping after that books with parts of the plane and trying to figure out how to put that plane together before it either lifts off or you just smash crash in the ground, basically you know have a financial crash. And that’s pretty much it if you can figure out if you can find the right strategy that works for you for your market and for your product. It’s all well and good but there is a high, you know the risk of not making it so and I guess in the article that they talked about Elon Musk when he created, when he started up Tesla, he didn’t know what it would be a success or not.

But it’s always good to have an alternative plan and you seem to be kind of going into this clear understanding of the risk because a lot of entrepreneurs the startup businesses and they kind of have this rosy glasses and they think I’ve got a great idea has to work, it will work and when it doesn’t. Yeah, this is when they get really frustrated and discouraged and it affects them mentally. Yeah,…

Sabrina: I think my personality has always been in probably why I was very good at the hospitality and the events industry was I I don’t take much personally. But I also I’m very good at thinking on my toes and I’m also very realistic like I know sometimes my husband tells me to a fault. But I tell it like it is and it’s sometimes not the best to have in the personality but sometimes it works for what I do, and I knew going into this that this may not work. I’m going to give it my full valiant effort to make sure that I, if I have to walk away I know I put everything into it and there was nothing else I could do and I’m okay with that.

Katerina: Yeah, because the idea might be daddy’s great it’s very often it’s the timing which might be wrong sometimes…

Sabrina: That’s sometimes my fear.

Katerina: So the timing and the COVID . God knows how, what’s going to happen but your business might be actually booming who knows but, yeah…

Sabrina: Because it’s something that I have lost some business because a lot of the companies that would buy my crayons actually went out of business. So a lot of the wholesale that I did those bookstores and those gift shops, they don’t exist anymore because they weren’t able to be open and those people now have lost their business. COVID, I think, unfortunately, has affected so many people’s businesses on such a terrible level, but what I have been able to do and what people are transitioning to is online, I mean everything happens online, on podcasts, on doing so if I can grow the online market which, getting on Amazon, which do all of these other things.

Katerina: Customers, directly selling to customers who magically you know…

Sabrina: Correct.

Katerina: But it’s called educating kids to the correct viable market, but no I mean it’s a positive thing and you are one of those resilient entrepreneurs because it’s… good for you I mean it’s what the time to run the business right. Yeah. But, you know, if you were to teach one lesson to start entrepreneurs what would it be? One lesson..

Sabrina: I don’t know which one to… Having a game plan, putting it all down on paper, trying to follow that game plan as opposed to jumping around I am sometimes terrible about that because I’m doing so many things at once, that I forget where my focus is, it really that I have to refocus myself again to kind of figure out where my plan was and when I started all of this with my sister back in March, the first thing I did was my business plan game plan where we needed to be what my timeline was. And so that was really just trying to make sure that you stick to what you’re doing but then also knowing that things change. And you have to be flexible to teach with them.

Katerina: Yeah. No, thank you so much, Sabrina, it’s a, it’s been an absolute pleasure and just to wrap up. Obviously, you know this podcast is specifically focused on female entrepreneurs. And what can you say to women who have small kids and they perhaps you know, just started their own business? What advice would you give them you know female entrepreneurs about?

Sabrina: I think that females are amazing humans. I mean, I think that we are multitaskers. I’ve never it’s every woman I know seems to be doing it all right now and right now it’s, it’s so challenging and it is so, it’s overwhelming. I mean just being right now with COVID I mean there are so many parents and women in general that are having such a hard time figuring out how to put it all together and really right now it the best thing I can say is find the people that you can lean on, find people you can talk to because if you don’t find those people, you’re going to be in a depression that you don’t want to be in and I think it is super important, as a female mom and entrepreneur and teacher and everything else that you also find time for yourself.

Katerina: Great advice, Sabrina.. Thank you so much for coming to the show and I wish you all the success.

Sabrina: Thank you.

Katerina:  I’ll definitely check out your company in a few months time. I really wish, you know, you take it off the ground on that little plane and everything will be just fine.

Sabrina: Okay. Thank you so much I appreciate you having me.

Katerina: Okay, Thank you, Sabrina. Bye.